09-November-2008
Portfolio Media Releases, Foreign Affairs, Infrastructure, The Economy, Emissions Trading Scheme
Topics: Execution of Bali bombers, US and New Zealand election, Budget, Emissions Trading, leak of Bush / Rudd conversation, infrastructure.
PAUL BONGIORNO: And welcome back to the program, Andrew Robb.
ANDREW ROBB: Good morning, Paul.
PAUL BONGIORNO: What's your reaction to the news the Bali bombers have been executed?
ANDREW ROBB: I think it might hopefully give a lot of people in Australia a sense of closure. All of those that had some association with the many that were killed in two incidents in Bali. And I do hope that there are no reprisals. Though, I think we must have quite a lot of confidence in the Indonesian authorities. I think they've done a first-class job over the last five years in dealing with this issue.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Moving on to the other big news of the day - the Clark Government has fallen in New Zealand. John Key is promising to wind back Helen Clark's emissions trading and to cushion business more. I notice one commentator said, even so, New Zealand will be further ahead of where Australia's now at.
ANDREW ROBB: Well, in some respects. They've excluded major sectors like agriculture, so if we brought in a scheme, we'd have major parts of our industry at a competitive disadvantage immediately, even with New Zealand. But, clearly it was an issue in the New Zealand campaign. There was a political agenda to rush a scheme in by the New Zealand Labour Party, Labour Government. It's done in a way which will possibly lead to jobs and emissions being exported overseas. They've moved too far ahead of the rest of the world too quickly. It was an issue in the campaign. And it will be instructive in terms of how the Rudd Government has got to wind back the sort of unnecessary haste and take some measured approach to this, so we get the right scheme in place, not some politically inspired scheme.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Do you think, just looking at the results in New Zealand, following on what happened certainly in the US of America and indeed Australia a year ago, that there's a mood for change out there in the electorates?
ANDREW ROBB: There's a strong mood for change. You see incumbency around the world under threat. People, they're fearful. I think in New Zealand there was a lot of merit seen - I've spent some time there over the last couple of months - there was merit seen in having someone in charge who has strong business and financial experience. John Key benefited from his background because they're in recession. And people are worried about their jobs, quality of life, about the future for their kids and they are looking for, you know, a sense of strong resolve, experience, measured approach to dealing with a very uncertain world.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Alright. At the end of the week Kevin Rudd flies to Washington for the G20 summit. But can George Bush trust him after the 'Australian' had an unflattering leaked version of his phone conversation with the President? The American Ambassador is diplomatically optimistic.
RECORDING OF US AMBASSADOR ROBERT MCCALLUM (Thursday):
The relationship between our two countries is not going to be necessarily diminished by any particular article in a newspaper about any particular subject. The Prime Minister's office said the article was inaccurate. The White House has said the article was inaccurate. As far as I'm concerned, it's a closed matter.
PAUL BONGIORNO: As far as the Federal Opposition is concerned, is it a closed matter?
ANDREW ROBB: Well, Paul, vanity is a very dangerous trait. And I think we've seen it in spadefuls here. This issue is not a closed matter. Certainly not in the diplomatic community. It is reverberating very strongly throughout the diplomatic community. As long as Kevin Rudd is Prime Minister, no world leader will have a fully frank discussion with him on the telephone. And I suspect even the President Obama call the other day, I suspect he let Mr Rudd do most of the talking for fear of seeing the conversation somewhere in the newspapers.
PAUL BONGIORNO: The Opposition was calling for an inquiry into the matter. There's nothing much left to inquire in to, is there?
ANDREW ROBB: Well, no, the point is Mr Rudd said there were only two people in the room, himself and a note-taker. If the note-taker leaked the essence of the conversation, that is a matter of great consequence and it is a police matter. If the note-taker did not leak that material, there's only one other man that it could have come from, it came from the lips of the Prime Minister. That's another matter of great consequence because we're talking about relationships with world leaders for years to come, and the Prime Minister needs to explain what has happened. We need to get to the bottom of this.
PAUL BONGIORNO: When we return, Barack Obama says he'll pledge the US to a cap and trade system to cut greenhouse gases. Where does that leave Australia? And the uplifting event of the century so far came on Wednesday Australian time.
RECORDING OF SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN:
Whether they supported me, or Senator Obama, whether they supported me or Senator Obama, I wish God speed to the man who was my former opponent and will be my President.
RECORDING OF PRESIDENT-ELECT BARACK OBAMA:
It's been a long time coming, but tonight because of what we did on this day, in this election, at this defining moment, change has come to America.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Welcome to our panel, Malcolm Farr, from the ‘Daily Telegraph’ and Philip Clark from Radio 2GB. In the final week of the presidential election, the Republicans made a play for coal miners votes in Ohio, Colorado and West Virginia. They reminded voters in those States that the Democrat had once warned coal fired power stations could go bust as the cost is put on carbon pollution. They forgot to mention he's in favour of carbon capture. His policies are also to encourage a cap and trade system any more a more ambitious target than in Australia.
RECORDING OF BARACK OBAMA (September):
I've put forward a very substantial proposal to get 80% reductions in greenhouse gases by 2050.
MALCOLM FARR, ‘DAILY TELEGRAPH’:
Mr Robb, President-elect Obama has a heavyweight climate change program. This has got to change the international equation on this issue. How will, what will that change be?
ANDREW ROBB: Well, this is a point. We have to wait and see what he does deliver. Clearly, he has put on the table hat he supports a cap and trade scheme. We support a cap and trade scheme. But he has also made it crystal clear if you look at what he said and what he's written over the last 12 months, that the only real solution to climate change is to have all of the major emitters involved. And he's really put a condition on America's leadership that China and Brazil and India all commit to some scheme. So, we've got to look at how we can deliver that. They've got a recession in the US. There's millions of people going out of work. We have to look at when and how they'll start a scheme. It puts all the more onus on the Rudd Government to wait and find out what can the new President deliver? When can he deliver it and how can he deliver it before we get too far ahead of the world?
MALCOLM FARR: But we'll see that at the UN meeting in Poland in December and Copenhagen in December 2009, won't we? His election has got to change the dynamics of those important meetings.
ANDREW ROBB: I suspect it will change the dynamics. He won't even be the President by the Poland meeting and he probably won't have an environment person in place until June-July next year the way their system works. And they've got a recession, right? They're losing millions of jobs. He's got a lot of other issues. We don't know how quickly and in what form any scheme will take place. The Congress just voted almost overwhelmingly, both sides of the House, against a scheme. So he's got a lot of internal politics to deal with. There's a lot of uncertainties, that's the point. Our whole point has been - we've got to get this scheme right, not just bring it in for crass political purposes. The Rudd Government are prepared to cut corners, in part, to save the political skin of some senior ministers who are under threat from the Greens. There's no doubt about that. It's one of their motivations. They want a new source of income. If they introduce the emissions trading scheme, it's a new tax, indirect tax. In two years time, it's the equivalent of increasing the GST from 10% to 12.5% in 2010. All of these things are hugely relevant, especially if the rest of the world is still years away from implementing their own scheme.
PHILIP CLARK, RADIO 2GB:
There are two basic views here. You're either a climate change believer because you believe this is the greatest economic threat to the planet's future or alternatively you believe in climate change on the balance of probabilities given the science that it's wiser to do something or nothing. Just from a personal point of view, where do you sit in that debate?
ANDREW ROBB: I'm not a climate change sceptic, I'm a Rudd sceptic. I don't think...
PHILIP CLARK: But what's your personal view. Well, go on then...
ANDREW ROBB: I do not think they're competent and their motivation on this is appropriate. We've got to protect Australian jobs and fix up the climate. You best tackle climate change from a position of economic strength. That's what we've always got to keep in mind. And also there's no Australian solution. There's a global solution. We've got to go hand in hand. My view is we've got to give - I agree with Rupert Murdoch - the science is very difficult for any of us to grapple with. We've got to rely on the people who know the science. I agree with Rupert Murdoch - we have to give the planet the benefit of the doubt, therefore we need to get on with and get a scheme in place, reduce CO2 emissions. There's a lot of efficiency benefits at the same time with all of that to preserve our resources and our energy sources. So we've got to get on with the job but we've got to do it in a way where we don't export Australian jobs and export emissions. And that's the trouble with getting too far ahead of the world. If we do something which exports emissions, we'll end up with more CO2 going up in to the atmosphere from China and India, so we'll do damage to the climate and at the same time shoot ourselves in the foot economically.
PAUL BONGIORNO: The mid-year update of the budget shows the global financial crisis has shown put a bomb under the Rudd agenda? WAYNE SWAN (Wednesday): What we can do, whether it comes to infrastructure, whether it comes to reform of federal-state relations or a whole host of other areas, there's tough decisions that must be taken.
PHILIP CLARK: There are, and the key questions that have to be taken what sort of infrastructure decisions should the Government be taking? The State Governments, particularly in NSW, are pushing for urban transport solutions. They are electorally popular, albeit needed. Should we be going down that route or be going down the key drivers of economic growth like port developments and national highway developments? Where would you be?
ANDREW ROBB: It's a very good question. In fact if you look at all the reforms of the Labor Government has been championing for two years, it all involves spending money. Now they've lost $60 billion. No matter whether you take COAG, education revolution, infrastructure, even the ETS, the emissions trading, it's all a matter of spending money. Now the money has been lost, a lot of their reforms have evaporated. The real challenge for the Rudd Government, what now are they going to do to keep Australia strong? On the infrastructure, the only money they'll have to spend on infrastructure is money that was delivered by the former government. That's all they'll have. And it really means with a lot less money than they were projecting. They've lost $60 billion. The quality of decisions needs to be paramount. We need to see real transparency in measuring whether we go ports, where do we get the biggest productivity kick from our investment? And if it's just done behind closed doors with all the best benefit cost analysis not on the table, none of the assumptions on the table, we can then greatly fear that again this money will be used as a Labor slush fund to bail out failed States.
MALCOLM FARR: OK, can we say, "Liberal Party to Sydney commuters - walk?" Is that what you're saying?
ANDREW ROBB: Well, there hasn't been one decision by this Government in 12 months. They've been in office 12 months - not one infrastructure decision. Not one, despite the fact they came in to office saying they would reform infrastructure. So to the people in Brisbane and Sydney and Melbourne, tomorrow in a traffic jam, congestion is a big economic problem. We've got to solve congestion in these cities. It's costing our economy a lot of money. In other areas like Western Australia, get the raw materials out of the country. Ports and congestion are big items. But we need to have this stuff on the table so we can make objective decisions, not politically inspired decisions behind closed doors.
PAUL BONGIORNO: Andrew Robb, thank you very much for joining us.
ANDREW ROBB: Thanks, Paul.
Media Contact: Stuart Eaton, 0433 298 620