FRAN KELLY:                          Andrew Robb this is your portfolio area will you recommending this scheme to your party room when you meet today?

 

ANDREW ROBB:                    I will be very strongly recommending that we take huge account of this scheme.

 

FRAN KELLY:                          Is that the same thing as we should adopt it?

 

ANDREW ROBB:                    Well we received it last week I think it has, I think it has the content and the features that will deliver a far, far better scheme than the government has got on the table and you know it’s a pathetic government response that we’ve had over night. I do think the knee jerk dismissal of this scheme by the government has greatly undermined their credibility of the government on this issue you know we spent months raising problems, legitimate problems about this scheme which the government then labelled us as deniers and sceptics and dismissed us out of hand. Now that we have undertaken the research which the government refused to do repeatedly refused to do which shows that this scheme can be twice as green, 40 per cent cheaper and save 70,000 jobs in regional Australia. You would think that the government would at least sit down and discuss the proposal. It’s a hundred page, very highly considered proposal. It was developed on the same model, the same modelling that the Treasury used to develop their scheme so it’s comparing apples with apples. And the Government has just in a knee jerk way dismissed this proposal and I do think you know that it just demonstrates clearly that the government is playing politics with this issue. A very important issue and they will pay a political price for that.

 

FRAN KELLY:                          Well the Minister Penny Wong said on this program this morning that it’s all very well to say that you’ve got a different scheme but its still not party policy, there is no amendments, there’s still no agreement in the party room quite clearly the nationals, senator Barnaby Joyce and Fiona Nash already have said that they won’t support any ETS full stop this one included. Let’s hear climate change minister Penny Wong this morning:

 

“It’s not possible to have an negotiation and a discussion where the opposition have yet to formulate a position, would I talk for example to senator Joyce about his ideas, would I talk to Wilson Tuckey for his ideas , would I talk to Tony Abbott, Mr Turnbull or Mr Robb who have all apparently put forward somewhat different views.”

 

 

FRAN KELLY:                         It’s a fair point isn’t it, what is your policy? Two days out from the vote.

 

ANDREW ROBB:                    The fair point in all this Fran is that we have been asking for literally months and months for this work to done. So that we could have an informed debate at our own expense we have commissioned this research it is a very robust and exciting piece of work. It builds on all the experience around the world and has taken a whole new dimension in this scheme which needs to be considered, we have said that until we are properly informed then Australia should not move forward. And that includes what’s happening with the United States, this modelling that we’ve done has been informed of what has developed in the States in the last three months. If we had taken a decision in June when the government wanted to ram this thing through you know where would we be as a country. We would not have the benefit of a scheme which is 40 per cent, 40 per cent that’s $50 billion cheaper, saving tens of thousands of jobs and is twice as green.

 

FRAN KELLY:                          But Andrew Robb with respect you talk about this new design dimension that is so exciting this notion of a baseline scheme for electricity generators is not absolutely new and if it’s so much better why is no one else in the world using this design?

 

ANDREW ROBB:                     No this is a furphy, this is a furphy. Again the Minister overnight said that this has been tried and failed. That’s not correct. What has been looked at before is that a baseline and credit scheme across the whole economy, we looked at that too as did Frontier and dismissed it. But the unique thing about this is that you use a baseline with still a cap, this is an emissions trading scheme. This is a cap and trade scheme that’s on the table, this is not a baseline and credit. Without getting into the technical details it is being misrepresented it’s a very simply process it’s a new design breakthrough in the sense of using that feature of a baseline scheme just for the electricity sector. And when you do that you massively reduce the tax on electricity, you stop indirect costs to small businesses like a dairy farm with 8 to 10,000 dollars of indirect cost that would come from the government scheme under this scheme 1 to 2,000 dollars. Dramatic difference, so you don’t put a leg rope on growth across the economy that’s where you get this benefit in lower cost and higher jobs but still having the money to do even a better job on emissions.

 

FRAN KELLY:                          Couldn’t it be argued to that you don’t a price signal so people get more motivated to use less electricity isn’t that the whole point?

 

ANDREW ROBB:                     But again this is the government’s spin on this issue. Well the issue is with this scheme that Frontier has put on the table you get exactly the same price of carbon as you would with the government’s CPRS scheme. The exactly the same price so the incentive for the big emitters to reduce co2 the incentive per tonne of co2 is identical to government’s scheme but you’ve got a scheme which is not at the same imposing a huge tax on a lot of industries who can do nothing, the smaller industries, small business, small mid tier manufacturers who will cope a really big increase in tax on their electricity without little ability in the short term to do anything about it. And that you see, sitting behind this the government is trying to defend their scheme because it involves a massive intake of revenue for the government. Tens of billions of dollars, they want to protect this gold mine of revenue, new revenue equivalent to a two and a half per cent increase in the GST. There is a cheaper way of doing but still getting exactly the same price signal and still getting, you know exactly the response and in fact rewarding those who do a better job of reducing emissions. That’s part of the scheme so you know there is enormous benefit out of this so I just say to you at very least the government should you would think for all the moralising and lecturing that we’ve had for two years now you’d think that if there was an opportunity to get a scheme which allows greater cuts in emissions at less cost you think they would at least sit down and have a discussion. I do challenge, I challenge the Minister and the head of the Department Martin Parkinson to sit down and debate and discuss this and be briefed thoroughly by Danny Price so that people could make a judgement about the merits of this scheme. It is too important an issue to play politics.

 

FRAN KELLY:                          Lets be clear on this then if the government proposed your scheme on Thursday a vote of this frontier economics scheme the coalition would support it? Yes or no?

 

ANDREW ROBB:                     Fran this is too important an issue to rush these things through, this is what we have been saying there is no imperative that a decision be taken this week or last week in June. The rest of world lots of things and there is lots that we can be informed about at Copenhagen and the United States. We’ve said the government needed to consider this research, this research has now been produced we should all, the Coalition and the Government thoroughly examine this. What we’re saying is that the work clearly demonstrates that there are alternative designs to the cap and trade scheme that deliver demonstrably better outcomes for the environment but at a cheaper cost and saving tens of thousands of jobs in the regions. This is the sort of advice that should be considered we said should be considered none of us should gallop to something on Thursday we should absorb this and try and see if we can make what is a deeply flawed government scheme something that is workable and will actually do something about emissions in this country.

                                                                       

FRAN KELLY:                           Andrew Robb on another issue your name has been touted as the emergency leadership candidate to take the Coalition to the next election. Are you interested in the job?

                                                            

ANDREW ROBB:                     Fran you know I still haven’t has any calls from those that have been mentioning me in despatches whoever they might be. I supported Malcolm in both votes when he stood for leaders nothing has changed I think that Malcolm is far and above the best person to take us to the next election and I’m absolutely confident that that’s what will occur.

 

FRAN KELLY:                          So no one has approached you about taking over the leadership?

 

ANDREW ROBB:                    No, no you know I think it’s been an exercise by a small number to destabilise that’s unfortunate I think we just need to move on and I think there will be a lot of support in the party room today for Malcolm and you know we’ve had a tough month but these things happen and I must say often leaders and new leaders in particular are measured and assessed by how they handle some difficult times I think the sort of courage and strength that Malcolm has shown over the four or five weeks has been exceptional and I think it will stand him in a good stead and it does signal to the Australian community the sort of toughness of the man and his ability and I think we will go on and very competitive at this next election

 

FRAN KELLY:                          If he did fall over are you a contender, you contender, you ever interested in the job?

ANDREW ROBB:                    I am not into hypotheticals I am just saying to you that Malcolm Turnbull in my view will lead us to the next election and will be very effective as the leader.

FRAN KELLY:                          And just finally and briefly Rio Tinto you are former consultant to that company and you spoke very positively on this program about Rio’s business ethics. How do you respond to these allegations that surfaced in China over the weekend that Rio Tinto has been involved in stripping tens of billions of dollars from China through a six year program of commercial espionage?

 

ANDREW ROBB:                    I don’t know the detail of any of that Fran all I can report is that in my experience with Rio Tinto in commercial projects in the region. What I have observed very clearly was a company which was absolutely determined to apply very high ethical standards in their dealings throughout the region and they were the sort of instructions that came through to any body who was working on their behalf certainly from my experience so you know I can only report as I saw it.

FRAN KELLY:                          Andrew Robb thank you very much for joining us.

                                     

ANDREW ROBB:                    Thanks very much Fran.