Topic: Labor’s futile Carbon Tax

 

E&OE……………………………………………………………………………………………

 

 

Andrew Robb is the Shadow Finance Spokesman and he’s on the line. Andrew, good to talk to you again.

 

Yeah good morning gentlemen.

 

Have they made it harder for you to unpick it?

 

No, no they haven’t.

 

We will bring in our own tax cuts. It’ll be conditioned by some of the things they’ve done, but basically this is I think such a disaster in terms of what’s laid out.

 

It is all smoke and mirrors. It’ll be unpicked very quickly, and I think for the demand for this being dumped will be overwhelming.

 

How do you see that playing out Andrew? I mean, the independents are absolutely welded to this Government, the Greens likewise.

I don’t know, how do you see it playing out?

 

Well, it still could be two years before we go to an election. Or it could be two months. ….

 

Do you think they could rush to a poll?

 

No, no.

 

 

Do you think somebody in caucus is going to be so upset or some…?

 

No, no there’d have to be some unexpected thing happen to have any effect on Julia.

 

As you say, the independents are having such a lovely time, they’re just, you know, pigs in mud. They won’t give this up for a second.

 

But there may be a temptation if they bring all this assistance or these giveaways in July next year. They may rush off to an election in that circumstance because it is only going to get worse thereafter.

 

But I think this will be, I think there is already a level of cynicism.

 

I just saw a piece in the paper this morning, of a Sydney household on $120 000 two daughters, $400 a year worse off. I mean, it’s falling apart already!

 

They gave the impression this wouldn’t hurt people, but the fact of the matter is there’s literally hundreds of thousands of small businesses.

 

I’m down here on the bay, near Beaumaris, Brighton and Bentleigh, is my electorate; right next door is the highest concentration of mid-tier manufacturing in the country in Moorabbin.

 

Thousands of my constituents work there. Not one of those factories will get $1 of assistance. And many many of them are either competing against imported products or trying to sell a product on world markets. The effect on jobs….

 

So their energy costs will go through the roof?

Yes, some of those are paying $120, 000 energy costs.

 

I had a small dairy farmer ring me this morning saying well, we employ six, now it is going to be four.

 

That’s right.

 

Well you know I can see a real employment effect in my seat, and most people, you know, wouldn’t have imagined that, and yet thousands of my constituents drive 5 km to Moorabbin and work there and none of this, there has been not one mention of small business, or medium-sized companies.

 

We’ve got hundreds and thousands of them. And they’re all now not going to be able to pass any of that on, and they’ll face a competitive disadvantage. This is just redistribution of wealth….

Absolutely

 

 

…Saving their political skin.

 

Andrew, can I ask though, one thing that makes me dirty on the opposition and this is one of the corrupting influences on this debate, is that the opposition does not dare say what it really thinks or what should be said because the complicit and the deceit.

 

There is no way that Australia can do anything to change the world’s climate. We’re just too small. The sacrifice would be just too massive anyway. It’s all a fiction.

 

Why do you not say it’s all a fiction? This pain will be no gain?

Well, in terms of what they’ve put forward.

 

No no no…

 

Let me finish and I’ll get to that stuff in a second.

 

In terms of what they’ve put forward, it is all a fiction.

 

This will not change the world’s climate. In fact, in all likelihood, it will make it worse because it will send businesses, especially energy intensive businesses, the things that we’re good at, the reason we’re so wealthy in Australia is because we’ve had the advantage for over 100 years of being good at energy and resources, it will send them offshore where they’re done less efficiently, so there’ll be more emissions going into the atmosphere. So if the science is right…

That’s called the carbon leakage problem and you’re absolutely right. But I want to ask about your program.

 

Yeah, alright, I’ll move onto ours.

 

The thing that we’ve done with the Direct Action proposals; every one of those issues are good; you get a good outcome irrespective of whether the rest of the world does anything, irrespective of what the science says because if we encourage more effective reduction of….more improvement in energy efficiency in buildings and elsewhere, that goes to the bottom line…..

 

That’s right, and that is the argument that you’ve been finessing for about….

 

18 months…

 

2 months, no no the specific thing “it’ll be good anyway”

 

That’s right. It’s a no regrets policy

 

Exactly. I want to ask you one really specific question, and I hope that I can get an answer more direct than anything Labor will do.

 

Will your package cut the world’s temperature by a flicker?

 

Well, not by itself, it won’t.

So…

 

It won’t affect it, we will reduce those emissions but at the same time, China’s going up 500%.

 

No, no, forget that. A specific contribution from Australia does have an impact over the temperatures won’t rise as much or whatever.

 

The thing is, will your cuts affect the world’s temperature at all?

 

Well, the bottom line is I don’t know, Andrew, because…..

 

No, the fact is the answer, let me tell you what the answer is. Hear it from probably one of the world’s, one of the world’s, probably the world’s greatest climate scientist yesterday, this is a bloke that even on this show, we were told was credible by climate commissioner Tim Flannery, hear from Professor Richard Lindzen: “I don’t think anyone could possibly detect it even with future technology. It would be nothing for all practical purposes. It would be nothing if the whole world did the same”.

 

So nothing we do would change the world’s temperature. I think the Opposition should be very frank about this. It’s all about nothing.

 

Well the bottom line is, Andrew, that I have studied the science for years, and I still think that, well I don’t know the relative merit of the science.

 

 I mean, it still to me, it’s not convincing either way.

 

And I find all of these competing statements, the next five years will put a lot more clarity into I think the public opinion.

 

But at the moment, we are wanting to be a government, and that means that we need to seek to reach a balance between all the competing interests in the community.

 

So you don’t actually know, you’re package will cut the world’s temperature at all?

 

What I do know is our package, whether the science, whether that fellow you put on was right or not, we will have a policy which will reduce emissions, but also every one of those initiatives, for instance, every percentage increase of carbon in the soil, monstrously improves the productivity of that soil.

 

We have degraded hundreds of millions of hectares of soil over this country for a long time. If we can restore carbon in the soil, we will have a major impact on food security and our capacity.

 

So all of these things that we’re saying is a no regrets policy.

 

It’s far from me to put words in Andrew’s mouth, but I think he thinks that you’re fearful of being painted as a climate change sceptic. Whether you believe that that will affect you when you go to an election.

 

Well, as I say, we’ve got.

 

How are you going to keep Malcolm Turnbull from speaking the next two years?

Well, look, we’ll put our case on it’s merits, and you know, I think Malcolm will get behind our policy, but the bottom line is that we have put in place something which will give Australia breathing space without costing Australia, without doing any material damage to Australia.

 

In fact improvements, a no regrets policy and by 2020 we will find what the rest of the world is doing, we’ll find much greater clarity on the science, and in the meantime, we haven’t, like the Labor Party is proposing, reshaped the economy in such a major way, put ourselves at such an enormous competitive disadvantage, sent thousands of jobs overseas and shot ourselves in the foot big time.

 

I mean it is just ludicrous that the greatest strength we’ve got in this country, we’re putting a lead weight around it and bringing ourselves back to the field. It’s our greatest strength, and we should be encouraging, fostering and nurturing that strength.

 

Good to talk to you, thanks a lot.

Thanks.